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*To*: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com*Subject*: RE: some of the reason why energy and power definitions are confusing*From*: "Tesla list" <tesla-at-pupman-dot-com>*Date*: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:25:10 -0600*Resent-Date*: Sun, 27 Jun 2004 07:29:39 -0600*Resent-From*: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com*Resent-Message-ID*: <jS63lB.A.SAC.7us3AB-at-poodle>*Resent-Sender*: tesla-request-at-pupman-dot-com

Original poster: "rb" <randyaz-at-cableone-dot-net> My point is that you cant disregard time/distance... Unless Einstein was wrong, you just cant get there from here! (again, time/distance) This can be debated ad nauseum... ******** It is my opinion that energy has nothing to do with time, however with this artificial definition, joules (energy) = watts * seconds. With this system the energy unit has time in it and the power unit doesn't. ******** -----Original Message----- From: Tesla list [mailto:tesla-at-pupman-dot-com] Sent: Saturday, June 26, 2004 12:14 PM To: tesla-at-pupman-dot-com Subject: Re: some of the reason why energy and power definitions are confusing Original poster: "Alfred Erpel" <alfred-at-erpel-dot-com> [lots o' stuff snippied] ***** sayeth rb ************* In your equation, you were able to remove the time/distance from the coulomb, but, you didn't account for the time/distance used in defining the volt. ***************************** Hi rb, volts are defined in the basic terms below: m = meters kg = kilograms s = seconds A = amps V = volts W = watts equation 1} V = W/A = m^2 * kg / s^3 * A <------ I copied this from one of zillions of physics sites on the web stating Amps as a basic and NOT derived unit. now consider the following where C = coulombs: A = C / s <--------- the definition of an amp take the definition of volt above (V = W/A = m^2 * kg / s^3 * A ) and replace A, with (C / s) and do the simple algebra. Now: equation 2} V = m^2 * kg / s^2 * C <----- simplified version of equation 1 remember that C = 6.41418 * 10^18 electrons, this is an indivisible quanta. See how the equation is simpler? There are no cubed units and none of the remaining units can be factored out. Simpler is good. So, rb, I don't get what your point is. My point is that energy is irrespective of time and shouldn't be obfuscated with time units in it. I can fill a bucket with energy. It can sit there indefinitely, energy sitting in a bucket, or the bucket can have a hole in it. The rate at which the energy leaks out; energy/time = power. Yet with our current system, spoken units of energy have time in them, and the spoken units of power have time removed from them. This is just plain counterintuitive, whacko, and makes people want to head for the woods. Also, please consider the following: F = farads (measure of capacitance) H = henrys (measure of inductance) C = coulombs ( I know that C = capacitance in other contexts, but that is not in conflict here, I am never using capacitance in an equation) equation 3} F = s^4 * A^2 / m^2 * kg <---- definition of Farad using A (amps) (SI system) equation 4} H = m^2 * kg / s^2 * A^2 <---- definition of Henry using A (amps) (SI system) simplify the above two equations substituting C / s for A. you get: F = s^2 * C^2 / m^2 * kg <------ fourth power of s is now second power! H = m^2 * kg / C^2 <------ time is totally gone, and there is one less unit! Henrys, in reality has no time component! But not according to the SI system. (equation 4) How could this possibly have come to be? This is my guess; everyone loves the near symetry of equations 3 and 4 above. The only way to get that near symetry is to define Amperes as a basic unit. After all, Farads and Henrys are so important to the resonance we all need for our tesla coils and radio and electromagnetic manipulation in general. It screams to you that it should be symetrical. Well it isn't. To pretend that it is, is a lie. And this is irrespective of what the definition of is, is. They screwed up in 1954. They need to reconvene and redefine the ampere as NOT being a basic unit. All those guys are dead now. They won't even be embarrased. http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/history.html [quote from the link above is below] Following an international inquiry by the BIPM, which began in 1948, the 10th CGPM, in 1954, approved the introduction of the ampere, the kelvin and the candela as base units, respectively, for electric current, thermodynamic temperature and luminous intensity. testily, Al PS ------ and while things are being redefined, we need thirteen 28 day months = 364 days. But Thirtcember would have 29 days so the year could have 365 days except for leap years where Thirtcember has 30 days. This superior system will allow you to know which day of the week it is merely by knowing the date of the month. Also, you just need to memorize the phase of the moon in the beginning of the year and you will only be 4 days off at the end of the year. ----- Your welcome.

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